Vancouver’s Mayor, Ken Sim, is a real Bitcoin fanatic who’s doing his half to get Vancouver’s metropolis council in addition to its residents to see what he sees on the subject of Bitcoin.
And his efforts are beginning to bear fruit.
On December 11, 2024, the Vancouver Metropolis Council greenlit a movement Mayor Sim ready to begin making Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
The movement directs metropolis employees to discover the concepts of Vancouver establishing a strategic bitcoin reserve in addition to accepting taxes and metropolis charges in bitcoin.
In my dialog with Mayor Sim, we mentioned the passing of this movement in addition to a few of his deeper philosophical ideas about Bitcoin.
We additionally touched on what Bitcoin adoption in Vancouver would appear like in an ideal world, his personal journey down the proverbial Bitcoin rabbit gap and why Bitcoin can convey monetary hope to the residents of Vancouver at a time limit when many are struggling to make ends meet.
The Vancouver Metropolis Council lately handed your movement to make Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
On a private stage, although, if you happen to might wave a magic wand and allow no matter stage of Bitcoin adoption you see slot in Vancouver, what would that appear like?
I’ve obtained to offer you a caveat right here. These are my very own private views. We now have a reasonably unbelievable staff on the Metropolis of Vancouver, and so they’ve been tasked to discover. So, it isn’t as if I can actually affect the staff and inform them “You have to do this and that.”
In an ideal world, the very first thing we might do is add to a strategic reserve. The second factor could be permitting folks to transact with bitcoin with out triggering capital features tax occasions and to just accept funds within the type of bitcoin. Tax regulation throughout not simply Canada, however within the U.S. and loads of different jurisdictions, nonetheless hasn’t caught up, so each time you transact with bitcoin, there’s a capital features tax price, which could be very cumbersome.
The third factor is that we begin the dialog and we bust the myths round narratives like Bitcoin is dangerous for the setting. That is all hogwash, proper? Bitcoin is definitely going to assist us save the setting.
Plus, it gives us with an immutable file and it really provides to a stage of transparency we have by no means seen within the historical past of humankind. Having that integrated into our techniques could be nice.
You spoke about this course of of training folks about Bitcoin on Natalie Brunell’s present. You mentioned you “shower them with love and then you hit them with facts.” Are you able to give an instance of what this seems to be like?
There’s loads of resistance with Bitcoin, particularly because it pertains to its perceived results on the setting. Folks hear this narrative that it is dangerous for the setting, and it is like, “Well, wait a second…”
I am an environmentalist, and I do know that if you happen to drive organizations throughout the planet to do stuff that they are not incentivized to do, nothing’s going to occur. Whereas if you happen to incentivize them — if you happen to construct in a reward system — it’s wonderful.
So, what do we all know? Properly, we flare pure fuel as a by-product of oil manufacturing, and if we really seize that and repurpose it for Bitcoin mining, it’s really good for the setting. Identical with capturing methane that seeps from the bottom.
Additionally, with various or inexperienced vitality sources, be it wind energy or solar energy, the place the economics usually do not pan out to construct these initiatives, you present somebody with a assured buyer within the type of Bitcoin miners, and the economics work and this stuff get constructed. So, it is internet optimistic for the setting.
There’s additionally this false narrative that nefarious issues occur with Bitcoin. That is rubbish, proper? Money is untraceable. With Bitcoin, we’re speaking about an immutable file the place you’ll be able to see each single transaction because the starting of time and you may catch folks on the on and off ramps.
Among the narratives are literally the exact opposite of actuality, and so we’ve to counter these narratives.
Based mostly on my expertise, it is simple to show somebody one thing, whereas it is rather a lot more durable for folks to unlearn, and we’re within the technique of serving to folks unlearn what they’ve realized.
You might have referred to Bitcoin as the best invention in human historical past. May you broaden on that?
Our cash is damaged. Folks cannot use it to retailer their vitality into the longer term. We’re on this rinse and repeat cycle. In Ray Dalio’s e book The Altering World Order, he talks concerning the rise and fall of the Dutch empire, the rise and fall of the British empire, the rise and, as he places it, fall of the U.S. empire. When you agree with Dalio’s perspective, the purpose is that the cash’s damaged.
We should not have a reserve foreign money that is ever lasted. We hold repeating historical past. However Bitcoin modifications all that. As everyone knows, you’ll be able to’t mess with it, and you may’t manipulate it. It is a game-changer and once we lastly get onto the bitcoin normal — I feel it is a matter of when, not if — it may change how people work together with one another and the way nation states evolve.
You simply cited one in all Ray Dalio’s books, and I’ve heard you talk about the way you’ve additionally learn books like The Bitcoin Commonplace and Layered Cash. You’re additionally a buddy of Jeff Sales space’s. With all of the studying you’ve finished and the conversations you’ve had with Jeff, did you find yourself having a lightbulb second with Bitcoin or was it extra of a gradual studying course of?
Properly, I had the alternative of the lightbulb second when my son Mitchell got here as much as me and mentioned “Dad, I want to buy bitcoin.” And I used to be like, “You touch that shit, and I’m going to punch you in the throat.” Clearly, I wasn’t going to do this.
Then, I began seeing extra of it and had conversations with Jeff. So, I began to look into it, learn a bunch about it and went to a few conferences. My journey was similar to loads of different folks’s. I used to be fully in opposition to it after which I warmed as much as it and ultimately turned an evangelist.
I am unable to level to anyone level the place it was like, “Wow, there you go” and I went 180 levels the opposite method. I do keep in mind although, I made my first $500 buy of bitcoin on November the 14th, 2020. The rationale it took me so lengthy was I needed to learn to use the app on which I purchased the bitcoin. It was all clunky — only a ache within the butt.
However I keep in mind that day, as a result of after I lastly purchased it I believed, “Did I miss out?” I feel I purchased it at like 16 or 17 grand and it had run from like seven or eight grand the month earlier than. I used to be like, “Did I miss it?” I keep in mind Jeff saying, “No, you’re still super early; we’re all still super early.”
You’ve talked about how unaffordable housing in Vancouver is. Does bitcoin repair this?
Sure. Let me provide you with an instance. We now have a small studio rental up in Whistler (a city north of Vancouver). Once we purchased it, it could have price 17.2 bitcoin. That is about 4 years in the past. When it comes to {dollars}, the property is up 36%, however by way of bitcoin, it is down one thing like 85%. As of as we speak, it prices like 3.3 bitcoin to purchase it.
By the way in which, I am not giving funding recommendation. I am simply speaking a couple of theoretical, if this performs out the way it might. If in some unspecified time in the future within the not so distant future, you can purchase a home in Vancouver for a bitcoin, what meaning is you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for about US$106,000 or about CA$150,000 if you happen to purchased a bitcoin as we speak.
I am not telling folks to take out a mortgage to purchase bitcoin — very removed from it. Go search monetary recommendation. However if you happen to consider bitcoin’s worth will proceed to understand, you’ll be able to actually purchase a home for CA$150,000 within the close to future by shopping for a bitcoin proper now.
You’ve got introduced Bitcoin, a taboo topic, into the fold as Mayor of Vancouver, and also you’ve mentioned that doing so would possibly result in your not getting re-elected. Have you ever ever thought-about that the alternative may be true, that possibly by embracing Bitcoin the folks of Vancouver will need to re-elect you?
I am not too involved about that. I’ve no want to be a premier or prime minister. I am not a politician, though I am sitting on this position, which I actually honor, worth and take very significantly. However the purpose was by no means to be standard. The purpose was by no means to get re-elected. The purpose was to do what I believed is correct for the way forward for the Metropolis of Vancouver.
And so I could not sit again any longer and ignore this as a result of I actually consider that this units town up for the subsequent hundred years. Am I proper? We do not know, however we’ve a reasonably good feeling, and I actually consider in it.
I feel voters, residents — it would not matter what facet of the political spectrum you sit on — are sick of politicians who do stuff simply to get re-elected. They need folks to do what they consider is correct, and I consider that is proper. If we do not get re-elected due to it, I can personally maintain my head up excessive and say, “You know what? We stuck to our values and we did what’s right.” If it really works out, nice. I really assume it may work out, although.
It looks as if a progressive metropolis like Vancouver — the primary metropolis in Canada to have a Bitcoin ATM — needs to be in favor of Bitcoin. Nevertheless, the earlier mayor tried to ban Bitcoin ATMs within the metropolis. Was there a response from the Vancouver group when the mayor did this?
I did not comply with it too carefully on the time, so I do not know. I am unable to touch upon it. What I can touch upon is we do have loads of politicians who will make coverage up primarily based on advantage signaling versus knowledge. We’re a knowledge pushed administration, and we care concerning the future prosperity of our metropolis.
I feel the excellence right here is we select to have probably the most impression — we’re extra involved concerning the steak than the sizzle. If somebody could make an argument on why this can be a dangerous concept primarily based on knowledge, we’ll take heed to it. We’d have it mistaken, however I can inform you nobody has been in a position to assault our Bitcoin stance with knowledge.
Bitcoin could be form of troublesome to make use of technically. So, to illustrate, in an ideal world, possibly Bitcoin turns into authorized tender in Vancouver in some unspecified time in the future, or if there’s simply higher adoption of it, do you are worried concerning the technical difficulties related to utilizing Bitcoin? Would the Vancouver metropolis authorities ever get entangled in educating its Vancouver residents about Bitcoin?
It isn’t one of many core providers we offer as a metropolis, so I do not see us taking place the academic rabbit gap. We’ll depart it as much as different consultants.
If the trade makes Bitcoin less complicated to make use of, so many extra teams and people will simply hop on the bandwagon. And you already know it is coming as a result of there are lots of people engaged on this proper now.
I am not an professional, however after I, after I hear about a number of the issues which might be occurring on Layer 2s and the Lightning Community, I see a future the place that is seamless. When folks go right into a Walgreens and so they purchase a sweet bar, they gained’t take into consideration how they’re paying with Bitcoin. All of the plumbing beneath will occur with out them figuring out, and it may revolutionize the planet.
You’ve got finished a handful of interviews on this matter to this point. Is there something that we within the media haven’t requested you but that you simply’d like to debate or level out?
Sure, I’d prefer to make a basic name out and never only for town of Vancouver. It is for each single metropolis and province and state and jurisdiction and canton, and nation on the planet.
We now have to get the training on the market, which remains to be a tough problem. Some folks within the media have made the remark that what we’re doing proper now’s extra advantage signaling, as a result of we’ve the hope of constructing this occur. That is incorrect, although.
We want Bitcoin supporters to begin pumping the true narrative of why bitcoin is a sound monetary asset. It is the most effective performing asset within the final 16 years on the planet. And we’re not merchants, so if you happen to’re not seeking to day commerce, all the volatility would not matter.
We have to begin getting that narrative out, however not from me, from the group. We have to let our elected officers know this as a result of they don’t seem to be going to do something till folks hit them with knowledge and inform our legislators that they need this.
We’re doing this as a result of we consider in it. We need to get forward of it. We need to arrange town for the subsequent 100 years, and that is why we’re keen to take political danger to do that. However we want assist. So, in case your viewers may help us push that narrative with our provincial authorities and of their jurisdictions, as effectively, that might be nice.
If folks come onboard and see how bitcoin can cut back a number of the monetary stress of their lives, do you assume Vancouver transforms right into a pro-Bitcoin metropolis comparatively shortly?
Sure.
I’m going again to my sister-in-law, who if she watches the video she’s gonna punch me within the face. About 13 years in the past, she was afraid of getting an iPhone. She did not perceive the expertise. It was a psychological block.
Then, she jumped on the bandwagon like everybody else, as a result of all her buddies had iPhones. It is ridiculous now to assume that individuals had been afraid of iPhones, proper?
Will Bitcoin give us hope? Completely.
I’m going again to the Metropolis of Vancouver and why that is so vital. The Metropolis of Vancouver exists in the identical situations as everybody else does. Whereas folks cannot afford a house or they’re battling groceries, we’ve a funds.
We now have to rent law enforcement officials, firefighters, engineers, and we’re dwelling in an setting the place our foreign money is getting debased and we will not enhance taxes at a fee that retains up with that. We do not need to reduce providers, and so Bitcoin provides us hope the place we will repair our monetary state, our stability sheet.
And that can really assist us run this metropolis for the subsequent hundred years. I feel when folks perceive Bitcoin and so they begin to undertake it, they may have hope, as effectively, as a result of they may understand their buying energy goes up, which is a good factor.
